Tag: Oneness
The length of the debate is 2hr45mins
Dale Tuggy’s Opening Statement
- The Father is the only God (1 Cor 8.6; John 8.54)
- Jesus is not God but messiah, God’s agent (1 Tim 2.5)
Compare 2 hypotheses in light of 6 indisputable facts
1. NT believe Father is one God alone
2. NT believes one God is the Trinity
6 Indisputable Facts
- All 4 Gospels feature a “mere man” compatible main thesis
- John 20.31 -> that’s it? nothing about Jesus being God
- The word God nearly always refers to the Father and no word refers to the Trinity
- they should sometimes use the word God to refer to the Trinity
but they never do - in the NT God is nearly always the Father
- no more than 8 texts where the term God refers to the Son
- a human can be referred to with the title God
- Jesus makes that point in Psalm 82
- they should sometimes use the word God to refer to the Trinity
- Only the Father and Jesus are worshiped
- no worship of the Trinity
- no worship of all 3 persons -> no spirit!
- Phil 2.11 says that Jesus’ worship is indirectly to God
- by worshiping Jesus we worship the creator
- That God is triune or tripersonal is never clearly asserted in the NT
- poor Jewish theology is always assumed
- Jesus never gets around to telling us that God is 3 persons in 1 essence
- No controversy about the Trinity in the NT
- Trinity theories always engender controversy
- the NT controversies are over whether Jesus is messiah and whether non-Jews can be saved apart from Torah observance
- No NT author lifts a finger to limit or qualify clear implications of the son’s limitations
- Jesus got his mission, authority, message, power, from God
- no author shows any embarrassment that Jesus is subordinate
Jesus is a real human man
- with a real human mother
- but with God as his father
- he was brought into existence in the womb
the one God is eternal
- why aren’t the NT authors at all concerned to exert the eternal existence of the son
- will grant pre-existence but not eternality for purposes of this debate
“It seems like Trinitarians and Oneness believers are so busy refuting one another’s theology that they have difficulty seeing the answer to their disputes lies in the fact that BOTH SIDES cling to unbiblical concepts” Andrew Denny
At last! A book written to address the ‘Oneness’ misconception regarding who Jesus is. Although Scripture is clear, that GOD is ONE Person
Deut.6.4 Mark12.28-32 and as such the doctrine of the trinity is untenable; history shows that sadly there were those beginning with the likes of Noetus, Praxeas, and Sabellius, who concocted an equally erroneous doctrine maintaining no distinction between the Father and the Son;
hence modern day Oneness doctrine.GOD in His grace has opened the eyes of the author,
an Ex-Oneness Advocate. Who has now meticulously addressed the errors of his former doctrine by using Scripture alone and in actually believing what Jesus had to say! That is, believing the words of Jesus regarding himself.This book is therefore for Truthseekers who dare to know the truth of whether they are indeed Apostolic in light of the words of GOD & His Son.
1 John 2.24
Caveat Lector
It is time for truth! This book needs to be read:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0985431830
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0985431830
PowerPoint Introduction: iana_intro.pdf
21st Century Reformation Special Edition
Focus on Oneness Pentecostalism
21st Century Reformation presents its first Special Focus Edition on the Oneness Pentecostal view of God. J. Dan Gill, 21st CR Editor in Chief, indicates “We have high honor and regard for Oneness people, ministers and churches everywhere.” This edition shares with Oneness believers what some of their own ministers have concluded regarding the Oneness understanding of God and Jesus. J. Dan says “While the Trinity falls short of the true scriptural understanding of God, there are those of us who have concluded that our Oneness views also fall short in some important ways.”
In this edition, we have five videos of teachings by J. Dan Gill. He is a 3rd generation Oneness Pentecostal believer who now encourages his fellow Pentecostals to reconsider their view of God and Jesus. J. Dan’s teachings in this edition are of powerful presentations that he recently made in former Oneness churches in Texas and Wisconsin.
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There are also some great articles including an excerpt from the writings of G. R. Davies of Australia. Davies, who is now deceased, was a popular speaker at UPCI conferences, camp meetings and churches around the world. We are honored to bring our viewers these materials from Davies’ book “Who Are You, Lord?”
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Oneness Pentecostalism to One God – J. Dan Gill
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Complete In Jesus! – J. Dan Gill
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You Can Know God – Joel Hemphill
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“Who Are You, Lord” – G. R. Davies
SOURCE: http://www.21stcr.org/
This is a picture of a letter that was written by a son to his father back in March of 2014. It took another two years before the son was certain that the traditional “Oneness” doctrine did not represent the whole truth of the Apostle’s doctrine.
When asked “did your Dad accept your sincere desire to show him what GOD had revealed to you?”
Here is the son’s testimony:
At first he ignored my comment. He wrote me back, but didn’t even mention what I had written concerning this. He eventually began to try “helping” me see the Oneness in our phone conversations from time to time, over the course of 2 years. One day, after I had professed I was certain of my beliefs, we got into it pretty deep. After what may have been a hour or so, he said to me, “Son, God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself.” I replied, “Yes Dad, it says God was IN Christ, not God was Christ.” He said a few more things after that, to which I very gently replied, “Well Dad, I just don’t see it like that anymore.”
We didn’t talk for a few days after that, but then out of the blue he called me, and sounded very excited. He said, “Son, I can’t believe this, but after 40 years of preaching this doctrine, I see I was wrong.
“Jesus is the Son of God!” He later went on the tell me that when I told him, “Yes Dad, it says God was IN Christ, not God was Christ,” something within him broke. He tried to fight it but my soft words at the end of our conversation caused him to “go back to look at it again,” he once told me. After a few days, it was clear to him, that he had missed it.Needless to say, he and I are enjoying this journey together.
Here is the father’s testimony:
Yes, son I do….It was your love and gentleness that touched my heart…. when I said….”God was in Christ”, and your said
” In Christ, not was Christ” that opened my eyes….
Since then I understand…..
Jesus Christ is not the Father……John 20:31, These things are written that ye may believe
that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.The Jewish people were waiting for a man, like Moses to come and speak God’s word to them. Deut. 18:18 ….the LORD will send a prophet like unto me….(a man).
Jesus himself even said, John 8:40…. I am a man that has told you the truth….
Peter said on day of Pentecost…..Acts 2:22……Jesus of Nazareth a man.Jesus is a man not the Father. God the Father is a Spirit.
I’m still learning……but I can see it
Why would God lie?
God said, audibly, on two occasions: This is my beloved son.
“This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” (Matthew 3:16–17; also found in Mark 1:11 and Luke 3:22).
And again,
“This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Listen to him” (Matthew 17:5; also Mark 9:7 and Luke 9:35).
This is out of the mouth of God at two different events as testified by three different writers.
Being as He is Spirit, God can neither be “with” Himself nor “in” Himself; to think otherwise is to grossly misunderstand the God of the Jews, of whom Jesus said, “we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews” (John 4:22).
We know that men lie. But why would God lie?
God who cannot lie (i.e., Titus 1:2 and Hebrews 6:18) called Jesus someone third person to Himself. He said this by referring to His son with the personal pronoun “him,” [Gr. autoú] in contradistinction to Himself as “I.”
Was God trying to put a stumbling block in our way to keep us from knowing the truth?
“Let no man say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God,” for God can’t be tempted by evil, and he himself tempts no one” (James 1:13–15).
We have God Himself doing the talking in calling Jesus His son, not some lying angel (i.e. 1 Kings 22:19-23).
What would be God’s purpose for being at all vague, let alone misleading, about the single most important truth given to man from God? Is there any other truth more important than this since it is regarding mankind’s saving relationship with God through His son?
“Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.” (John 14:6)
What “truth” could possibly be more important among mankind than God’s true relationship with His son? Why then would God lie about it? Why would God even be vague about it? Was God ashamed of His own gospel?
“Let God be true, but every man a liar” (Romans 3:4).
Do you believe that? What if God actually was true and every man was a liar?
If God was completely, succinctly and accurately telling the truth in both of those audible proclamations of His, then both Onenessianism and Trinitarianism are falsehoods from the lies of men.
“Let God be true, but every man a liar”! Are you hearing me?
“If we receive the witness of men [Oneness, Trinitarian or Arian], the witness of God is greater; for this is God’s testimony which he has testified concerning his Son. 10 He who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. He who doesn’t believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning his Son” (1 John 5:9-10).
This is a really, really big deal!
According to God Himself, Jesus is God’s son, not God. Otherwise God could have, and should have, told us when He had these two perfect opportunities. But God, who cannot lie testified to us something different than either Trinity or Oneness. He testified audibly that Jesus the Anointed One is His son! He could have done more good by not saying anything IF (big if) the Oneness or the Trinity is true!
But rather, God used His perfect opportunity to the utmost to state in the clearest terms possible, this most important truth of all: that Jesus the Anointed is His son. Furthermore, God spoke of His son in personal pronouns. That means God also used His perfect opportunity to clearly indicate that His son is a separate and distinct person from He, God, Himself! Why do you question God? To what end will it get you to question God to the point of making His words out to be lies on multiple levels?
If you want to question the true Son of God doctrine, then be forewarned that in doing so you are calling God a liar and men true. In other words, you are calling good evil and evil good at the highest possible level–the very mouth of God!
Who then is this son of God? He is just precisely who God, who cannot lie, first proclaimed him to be, nothing more and nothing less:
“When your days are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall proceed out of your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son…”
(2 Samuel 7:12–14).
This is the son of the Father in truth!
“…From God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth…” (1 John 1:3).
And if you don’t believe in the true son and Father as the Bible defines them, then hereby know, that the Bible calls you “against-the-anointed-one” (antichrist)!
“Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Anointed One? This is the Antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son, the same doesn’t have the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also” (1 John 2:22–23).
So go ahead now, choose whom you will serve. Go on and kick against these facts! Go ahead now and devise your cunning fables, private interpretations and traditions of men that you feel counter these very clear, once audible proclamations of God!
But before you do, please, I beseech you, answer me this one question:
WHY WOULD GOD LIE?
“But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD!”
(Joshua 24:15).
PS
See also this Presentation
1st TV Program – Joel Hemphill – To God Be The Glory
2nd TV Program
3rd TV Program
4th TV Program
5th TV Program
Age To Come 